How Men Can Support Women in Menopause: Real Talk on Mood, Sleep, and Low Libido During Menopause

Dr. Diane Mueller: Welcome back to another episode on the Libido Lounge. I am thrilled to bring on a menopause expert, Zora Benhamou, and we’re going to talk about menopause, but I want to make sure that we include the ladies that are in menopause, the ladies that are in their 30s that are getting closer to that stage, and also to consider the men that are listening to this and how you can support any women through your life, through their lives in this transition time. So whether you are a woman in that menopause stage, whether you are much earlier in your life than that and you want to know things of how to prepare to make this transition easy for you, or whether you’re a man looking to support the woman in your life through this transition, there’s definitely stuff for you here. So I am thrilled to have you today with us, Zora. Thank you for joining.

Zora Benhamou: Thank you for having me. I love being in the Libido Lounge. Love the name of that.

Dr. Diane Mueller: It’s great to have you in the lounge for sure. And let’s jump right in. So, let’s talk about I’m really interested in being like inclusive here like I said around like thinking about not only women of different ages, men and how they can, you know, be supported, but also I think to start this conversation, you’ve traveled around the world a lot and you talk to women in different countries about their menopause experience. So, can we open with that? And will you just tell us a little bit about what you’ve learned and commonalities, differences, maybe how we work through menopause in different cultures, um that sort of thing.

Zora Benhamou: I literally stop women on the street and ask them five questions about menopause. And the ones who’ve opened their mouth, over 300 now, but I’ve spoken to a lot of women who just say, “No, I don’t want to talk about it, but not on camera.” So I’ve traveled through Asia and on Europe, the US, Canada, and so I love to just ask five questions. Don’t have any say in this. It’s their story. And what I’m noticing around the world is that, well, no one’s getting away with menopause. Some of them say yes, I did get away. And they’re 65. I said, well then do you still have a period? No. Well said, well then you’re in menopause. So some people don’t even really know what menopause or they have a different translation of what menopause is. But what I am finding is that the Asians were much more open to talking to me than I expected. I thought they’d be a much more closed community. And I’m talking about Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese. And when I speak to women in Eastern Europe, those are the ones that are much more difficult to open up. They all go through menopause. We all if you have ovaries, you’ll eventually get there if you’re lucky. However, the attitudes are different. I find that women of different socioeconomic levels will have a different attitude. So, the woman who’s selling fruit on the street in Vietnam, when I ask her about menopause, she’s looking at me like, “This is not a problem. Like, I have got to go feed my kids. Like, there’s no like I don’t care.” And then you have other women who are tend to seem to forget because when you have their daughter or their partner there and this woman says I didn’t go through menopause or it was nothing easy, they have somebody shaking their head saying no. But what I think though is the research does show that that people do have a different attitude in in Asia in the sense that even the word menopause may translate to a blossom or a new beginning or it’s not this horrible association that we make with it in in the western world. Now when we have but the research does show and this actually I’ve seen this in my interviews as well is that women in different countries experience menopause at different ages and when I say experience menopause I mean they have their menopause birth date that age when you have 12 consecutive months without your period and it’s you just one day event and you got your birth date. So in the western world we tend to go around 51 more or less and then in Asia we have to tend to be a bit younger anywhere between 46 48 49 with the exception of of Japan which women tend to have a little bit later. So we do have different experiences uh in terms of a timeline as well. So I do find that the the women who I am interviewing in in the more Asian cultures do seem to have a different attitude in the sense that it and I can’t decide if it’s a socioeconomic thing where they’re like I’ve got other problems to deal with or they are just have a more positive attitude like this is this is going to end this is going to be fine. We’ll we’ll get through this. More of a chill. Whereas in the western cultures, we’re like, “Okay, we’re not taking this and we’re going to do something about it.”

Dr. Diane Mueller: It’s I find that age this like difference. It’s like so interesting that in different cultures there’s different ages that women are going through this. Are you and I understand kind of the thoughts around like oh the the attitude to it, but what about like like when you’re saying okay in Asia cultures it’s oftentimes about five years older or younger that women are going through menopause. Do you like with your research around longevity and aging and menopause are you coming up with any theories as to what’s going on with why that is happening?

Zora Benhamou: Well, when we think about well let’s say Asia for example, we there is a certain genetic component. So across the board the research shows that whatever age more or less your mother went through it it’s likely to be yours. But um and that’s the strongest predictor. But when it comes to let’s say India or cultures that have uh are just more underdeveloped there may be an issue of that they’re lower income regions so they they have more stress their nutrition isn’t up there the health care access isn’t there as well. So that could be one of the problems as well and and even your birth weight may may have a an influence on this. countries where where children have low birth rates, then they have a higher odds of an earlier menopause compared to those people who have just normal birth weight. So, could be many different things, but my theory is it it’s more likely something to do with the health care system or just that they’re not having the access to good nutrition or they have other stressors going on.

Dr. Diane Mueller: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. What about the different stages of menopause? So, I know so many women, at least women that I talk to, oftentimes aren’t even thinking about menopause until maybe when they start missing periods. And sometimes even then, they’re not thinking about it until they’ve gone long enough, like not always to that 12 month where we can officially say you’re in menopause, but but often times it’s like, okay, many months go by of those, you know, cyclic changes before it’s even on on women’s minds even bring to their doctor. And I know as I know you know that there’s so many things we can do in advance to help this transition go easier. But in order to do these things, we need to be aware that this transition is like even happening at different stages of life. So can you talk to us a little bit about like the different stages of menopause and how women are even able to recognize you know this as well as you know their partners helping them recognize that this is happening.

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Dr. Diane Mueller: That is such a good question and I do realize that most women no matter what culture you’re from are not aware of these different stages. I myself I consider myself an educated person but I thought when I was in my 40s I didn’t know there was a word called perimenopause. I thought oh I’ll think about menopause after the age of 50 or something. And so it’s really common. So if anybody’s listening now going I don’t know what are these stages don’t worry you’re not alone. So the menopause birth date is what I explained it’s a one day event and that can be different ages from different cultures and different people and again we this is a broad range let’s say even with the western culture I say 51 but it’s somewhere 45 to 55 like that’s kind of the normal range and then we have perimenopause which is the time leading up to menopause and that’s the one that’s the most disturbing that’s the part where your hormones are fluctuating and you’re not sure really what’s going on and you are not thinking about menopause cause. And so if you’re in your 40s and you go to the doctor, you say, “I can’t sleep well. Um I I’m I’m getting very moody. I may be being a little depressive.” You’re going to get a sleep medication and you’re going to get an anti-depressant. Doctors are not trained in menopause, so they tend to not think about, “Oh, maybe she’s low on progesterone. Let’s go check her out.” So this is something that to be very aware. At the age of 35, more or less, again, this is just very general information. their mid30s, you start to lose progesterone. And progesterone is your calming hormone. It’s the hormone that makes you feel chill and relaxed and helps you sleep and all this. So, when you start to lose it, that’s why you may feel more anxious. You may feel having sleep disruption. So, when that starts to head out, it actually declines pretty quickly. We always tend to think of estrogen, which is another sex hormone, as falling off the cliff. But no, that one has fluctuations, goes up and down, and it eventually goes down, but it’s not as steep as progesterone. And this is why we when you’re in your 30s, it is really important to be aware of perimenopause. And so in general, it perimenopause phase happens between five, seven, some people say 10 years before your menopause birth date. So if that’s 50, then probably your 40 is when um you’re starting your perimenopause journey. But if you’re in in Asia, let’s say if the average age is 46, well then it’d be normal at 36 to actually go through this perimenopause transition. But again, we can have this this this drop of progesterone for many years and and not really um it may come back. It’s not like it it goes and it never comes back. We get this is the fluctuations that happen. So and I met some women who’ve been perimenopause for even longer than that. And so, but the first thing is to be aware. The next thing is then, okay, what do you do about it? You can test. You can look at your hormones. There’s many different ways to do it. And a menopause trained doctor will know how to do that because some doctors poo poo testing. They’re like, “Well, it’s up one day, down another day.” And I don’t know. I believe it’s it’s a good thing. It’s just information. It’s data. Yes, it is one point in time, but we like to look at trends. So, if you’re able to test more regularly, then you can see, oh, whoa, whoa. every time I’m testing progesterone, it gets lower and lower and lower and never keeps to go up. Well, yeah, you’re probably losing your progesterone and that gives you a clue. Maybe you don’t need the anti-depressant. I don’t know. Maybe you do. So during that, that’s the most important thing is to be aware at in your mid30s. It’s not unusual. And then we have different stages of perimenopause. We have the early, the mid, and then the late stage perimenopause. So early perimenopause is again you you may notice some sleep disruption. Nothing nothing huge. baby, your period is a little off. You used to be a 28 day girl. Now you’re 25. You’re not really sure what’s going on. But then when we get into the that’s the early perimenopause. Mid perimenopause would be uh where you may skip a period once in a while or maybe you start to have a hot flash or start to have night not necessarily night sweats, but just kicking off the sheets because we may not think that that has something to do with the loss of estrogen. but just kicking off the sheets and you’re and your partner or whoever is sleeping next to you is not hot but you are. That’s a sign maybe you’re in the mid perimenopause. And then there’s the late perimenopause when some of these symptoms start to build up and your periods go away for a little bit longer and and they’re different stages. You can dive deep into it but just to be aware there are different stages of perimenopause. And then there’s postmenopause which is uh just after few years after your menopause birth. It’s called early postmenopause and then everything like that after that is late postmenopause. And I I hope that we do have different terminology for those women who are postmenopause and not just say, “Oh, you’re postmenopause because I personally think that a woman in her 50s has a different menopause experience than a woman in her 70s.”

Dr. Diane Mueller: Yeah, it’s really these are really great points and just to piggyback on what you said, I think there’s like so much to be said around that testing so we see the trends, right? I think that is super essential and even to just like I just want to bring up that even these commonalities that you’re talking about around like oh progesterone typically is what we see often decline first. I’ve been like the complete opposite in my menopause journey. So, I just wanted to name that I’m 45 and my I’ve been tracking my hormones for about the past 10 years and around 40 is when I start see them change and test them very regularly, multiple times a year, different times a month, etc., etc. And my estrogen was the first thing to go and it wasn’t until and so I started on estrogen replacement therapy many years ago. My progesterone didn’t start changing until about 6 months ago is when I and that’s when I added progesterone. So, I just want to throw that in because it’s like, you know, I know we like talk about commonalities and I think that’s super important, but just to kind of like mention for people like, yeah, the testing’s the most important because even though there’s commonalities, there’s always outliers around, you know, people like me that for whatever reason and my symptoms matched estrogen deficiency, not progesterone deficiency. So, super interesting there. And then just like super important, like you said, to to test for sure. I love that you said that because it does show one of the biggest myths is that oh we all kind of go through menopause the same thing. That’s why I said also generally we we h so many women have such a different experience and there’s some women who feel nothing and honestly they do feel they don’t feel anything. Not that nothing’s happening but they don’t feel and but you’re absolutely right that it’s great that you’ve tested and you could see because there’s no point in saying oh well Zora said progesterone. No, you’re diff. You possibly different. So, thank you for mentioning that.

Zora Benhamou: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We just want to include the the outliers of the generalities as well in these kind of conversations. Um, so let’s talk about the men and then in in episode two, everybody remember we always do these in two episodes. You’ll learn about episode how to get to episode two in the show notes below this video. Episode two, we’re going to talk about what to do about these things. So, um, make sure you, um, join for getting episode two below the show notes. But to wrap this episode up, I want to make sure we’re inclusive of the men, too. So, what have you seen and and people you’ve worked with? Because I know you’ve worked with so many people in the perimenopause, menopause stage in their lives. Have you seen any commonalities of people that have felt like really supported by male partners? And what have male partners done to support their wives, spouses, girlfriends, that sort of thing?

Zora Benhamou: I have seen it for sure. It’s wonderful when a partner knows what’s going on. I highly recommend women to bring their partner to the doctor with them. If it’s a male part, she’s a female, she probably knows what’s going on, too. But bring your male partners to the to the doctor because sometimes when the doctor explains these things, so first of all, the the women may not have a clue what’s going on themselves, but then when you have a doctor to explaining it, you it makes things understandable. Low libido is one of those common symptoms of menopause. And so you may not understand why am I not attracted to my partner anymore. And maybe it’s hormonal, maybe it’s not. But at least trying to go down that rabbit hole and seeing if if you want to fix this, that’s that’s one of the things that you could talk to your doctor about. But I really think that we the the research does show that women who have a supportive network around them have a much better menopause experience. So if your partner’s gaslighting you or if you’re not supporting your partner, it’s going to make it worse for her. So please uh try to understand menopause for the the guys who are listening to this. uh learn about it, read about it, listen to her, understand this is a transition and that you can do so many things to support her and she doesn’t need to suffer whatsoever. There’s solutions.

Dr. Diane Mueller: Yeah, it’s great advice because I even see so much gaslighting in the medical community as well. Like, you know, every once in a while I hear these stories from women in my community where they go to talk to their doctor about menopause and their doctor says something like, “Well, every woman goes through it, so you just got to suck it up.” Like literally for women, I’ve heard that. It’s like it’s just absolutely insane that that is what women are being told. And so, you know, the more that I think their male partners, if they’re in a hetero relationship, can work to not gaslight them at home, too, and help them self-advocate, the the better. And and I I hear these stories every single day. And it comes from male doctors and female doctors as well, unfortunately. So, it’s something we need to do.

Zora Benhamou: There’s one other statistic that was or study that was really interesting that was published showing that women who wear the pants in the family tend to have a better menopause experience.

Dr. Diane Mueller: Yeah. Yes, sir. I wonder if there’s just an element of just like taking more control of, you know, what’s the chain, you know, the changes are and maybe um maybe where like in that scenario, that power kind of scenario, maybe there’s an element of just asking for what they need more or that sort of thing. But that is a very interesting statistic. Anything else we have not said in this episode? And again, we’re going to talk about what to do, biohacking for menopause, longevity, how to have a better better menopause experience, etc. in our next episode, everybody. But is there anything else we haven’t said in this episode that you want to wrap up with, Zora?

Zora Benhamou: Oh my goodness, there’s so much I don’t know where to even start because we’ve barely scratched the surface but my biggest message to to the women who are listening to this is that menopause is inevitable. Suffering is optional. We don’t need to suffer through this. And it can be the best years of your lives. Honestly, libido can shoot through the roof if you work with the right people like you. And for the guys as well, the biggest hack that they can do is educate themselves and understand, try to understand what she’s going through and and give her the biggest support and and you’re just going to cruise through this without a problem.

Dr. Diane Mueller: I love it. I love it. And you have a great free quiz for everybody. Tell us about your quiz.

Zora Benhamou: Oh, it’s a very simple quiz. Not that many questions, but it helps guide you. Where are you in this transition if at all? I mean, you could be premenopause and just worried about it and and you answer the questions and it’ll spit out you’re you’re you’re not there yet. If you’re in perimenopause and you’re kind of wondering, am I early, late, mid, like where am I in this journey? How soon is menopause going to come? Take the quiz. And then if you’re postmenopause, too. and and after the quiz obviously you can we give you tips and hints and have it all written out for you so that you can improve your symptoms.

Dr. Diane Mueller: Perfect. And then everybody I’m also going to I’m going to put that in the show notes. I’m also going to add a link for a ton of other of Zora’s free information. She has information on debunking menopause myths on how to manage menopause stress on how to sleep better in menopause and perimenopause and so many more freebies. So, I’m going to put that link for all of her freebies as well in these show notes as long as well as the quiz and as well as the links of course to access part two. So, thank you everybody for being here on another episode of the lounge. Thank you Zora for your time and we’re we’ll see you all real soon.

Dr. Diane Mueller: Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don’t keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends! You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, and check out our Modern Libido Club for so much more!