Why You Keep Having Recurring Arguments in a Relationship (It’s Not Communication)

Why We Have the Same Fight Over and Over (Part 1)

Dr. Diane: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Libido Lounge. I’m your host, Dr. Diane, and as always, we have another great guest today. And this one, this particular guest, Dr. Jessica Higgins you heard from last week. If you’ve not watched that episode, I definitely recommend going and watching it. We talked a lot about criticism, its impacts in the bedroom, outside of the bedroom, how to recognize if you’re being overly critical, how to work with the quote unquote no that people bring up in relationship to work with it in a way that is helpful to the relationship and not harmful. So that was all in episode one. I introduced Dr. Jessica there too as the host of the Empowered Relationship podcast and somebody that really does so much in her own work to help couples navigate the challenges of long-lasting intimacy more gracefully. So, we’re talking about conflict today. So, first of all, welcome back to the lounge, Dr. Jessica.

Dr. Jessica: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, my pleasure. And now that we’re talking about conflict, I think one of the things that we hear so many couples say when it comes to conflict is, “Well, we just had a communication breakdown.” And so oftentimes, this is what’s said. And so my curiosity is like, how often do you find that that’s the reason behind conflict is a communication breakdown? Or is that just something that we say to in some ways just label it but maybe prevent us from going deeper as to what’s actually needing repair in the relationship?

Dr. Jessica: Great question. I do think that it makes sense that people would label it as a communication issue because people are attempting to talk through something and not feeling resolution. So it makes sense that that’s where they’re feeling stuck. And when I look at communication, oftentimes we are able to articulate and we’re able to listen to content. Perhaps how we’re approaching it is perhaps leading to this endless vicious cycle. And what I would say is that there’s a deeper understanding of what one is needing and wanting. Like sometimes I might describe a lot in hopes that my husband will be able to understand the thing that’s hurting. And then we talked about this a little bit last time. And also when I’m listening to my husband, I can listen to the content, but if I’m not listening to how come this matters, what is the kind of juice for him? What how this is meaningful? What matters to him? I might miss it. There’s times where he will describe things in ways that I’m like, I would never articulate it that way. And if I’m feeling any level of threat, I might actually take offense to that. And then my need to protect myself, even without awareness, I might respond back. So oftentimes in a disconnect cycle where couples are having a hard time communicating, they’re both using protective strategies that are hurting the other and they’re actually having difficulty talking about the deeper vulnerability, showing the underbelly and having those vulnerable conversations where they’re really understanding. Difficult to do sometimes. Some of the scariest work I’ve ever done and also it’s what can move mountains, so to speak.

Protective Strategies in Conflict

Dr. Diane: So the solution, one of the solutions that I’m hearing is the way we listen. So it sounds like what you’re saying in part is it’s not about just listening to the words. It’s about listening for what’s underneath the words. What are they really saying? How are they really feeling? And so is there from a standpoint of like solutions and strategies, is there more you can say on how we listen in order to help people break this vicious cycle?

How to Listen Beneath the Words

Dr. Jessica: Yes, I will say that you’re asking a question about the harder of the two. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I’m happy to answer. I’m just saying for listeners who are thinking about their relationship, I find it a bit of an advanced move to hold on to myself, stay regulated in a heated discussion and if I can listen to my partner, particularly if he’s being critical. So I’ll give you a scenario just that it’s not so it’s easier to listen when it’s not about me, right? If he’s talking about a work thing and he’s venting a bit, I’m listening. I might understand all the facts and the content of what he’s saying, but I’m still a little bit of like, okay, like not feeling my empathy kick in yet. And then if I get curious and try to understand if it were if those things were true for me and I was in that situation, I was listening. It was this was a real example and I was like, “Oh, I wouldn’t feel supported.” And so I asked him, “Oh, is this, you know, one of the things that comes up for me? If it were me, I wouldn’t feel supported. Is that right?” And he’s like, “Yes.” Then when he told me that he wasn’t feeling supported, I felt myself lean in and feel that empathy of like, “Oh, this is why it matters to him.” Easier when it’s not about me, right? So if that’s why I’m saying it’s a little bit of a ninja move or a more advanced move. So if he’s talking about me, still possible, but harder to do that he’s perhaps got issue with me or criticizing me. If I can stay grounded or at least have a part of me that’s grounded. I might say, “Okay, there’s a part of me that’s getting defensive, but there’s a part of me that can actually just stay grounded. This matters to him. He’s got strong feelings. Let me be interested in that.” So it’s almost as if I’m like watching him project something on the screen and I’m watching it go by and he’s painting a picture for me. He’s giving me a story and I don’t have to actually agree with the story but if I can just say okay so given all of that he’s shared given all of that what’s that like for him and if I can stay interested then I’m more like leaning in of like oh he’s wanting to feel you know I don’t have an example right now heard and seen about something then my empathy kicks in. I don’t actually we don’t need to agree on the facts but if I can understand why it matters then I’m able to lean in and respond to him and his emotion and that’s going to get us into more connection.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you on the difference and what is easier versus not. Are there any other before I ask my next question, are there any other intro steps in how to do this well that you want to share with us?

Dr. Jessica: Well, I would say starting with the self. So, when we are noticing a pain point or I’ve got a bone to pick with you, right? That depending on the goodwill in the bank, we could just initiate and start that conversation. Typically, we when we can start it with a little bit more intentionality, we’ve got space, nobody’s got a meeting approaching, we’re kind of rested, fed, those type of things. And if I can take some time to do some prep work, asking some questions around again what comes up for me the deeper emotion, why this matters. Again, if I posed that question last time we met in the previous interview, if my husband did the thing I wanted him to do or if he didn’t do what I don’t want him to do, what would that allow me to feel? What would I be experiencing? Then I have a little bit more visibility and illumination on the things that matter and I can root around and usually even for myself that I’m in this field I’ve been I support other people I walk the talk it’s still I have to slow down access so once I get to a sense of resonance of like oh this is this is the juicy part and it’s usually scary it’s the thing I don’t want to say feels maybe unlovable or unattractive or insecure and if I can show him and lead the conversation and send that signal. It’s usually pretty concise. You know, we could say, “Okay, here’s some facts to orient when X, Y, and Z, I felt this or this is what came up for me and I’m showing him.” He’s likely going to respond to the thing that I actually am wanting him to see versus what we typically do is we do a whole monologue and we get into the facts and then we go back and forth on trying to recreate reality and the facts. That’s why people say it’s a communication thing because we don’t agree. We don’t have consensus. Truth is, we never will. We have different perspectives. We come from different backgrounds. We’re not going to see the same. We’re not going to have the same perspective. So, trying to get consensus is an endless journey that won’t result to the thing that people typically are yearning for.

Perpetual Problems in Relationships and the Rejection Cycle (Part 2)

Dr. Diane: What about the rejection cycle? So, taking this to the bedroom, there’s this vicious cycle that I see so many couples get into, which is one person initiates a lot and is getting turned down a lot. And so, they basically stop initiating and then the person that was turning them down, they’re already feeling no desire for whatever root causes are driving that, but now they’re feeling oftentimes a sense of guilt on top of it. And so, there’s this, you know, kind of bidirectional for different reason level of rejection. So, it’s a little bit of a vicious cycle and a loop that gets created. Do you see any ways that are just like the common ways that people begin to break this loop?

Breaking the Rejection Cycle in Relationships

Dr. Jessica: There’s so much to be said around this. So, you’re asking specifically about the rejection or are you asking also about how to break the loop?

Dr. Diane: I’m asking I the my primary question was how to break the loop, but I think talking about both are valid. So, we can go to both places.

Dr. Diane: I want to take a quick break from our episode to say that if you are finding that in your long-term relationships things are just not as passionate, hot, or that you simply feel overwhelmed or do not have time to prioritize sex. You are not alone. It is so common that people start experiencing erectile dysfunction, vaginal dryness, boredom, just a lack of communication, or just a sheer not prioritizing intimacy, their love life, and more. That’s exactly why I created my hot monogamy society, where couples or individuals come to learn more about how to bring passion and aliveness back into their relationship. I want you to think about what you want your relationship to look like in the next decade or two or three. If you still make the same choices that you are making today in your relationship, are you going to reach those goals? If not, if you need support, that is what my society is for. You’ll find links about how to join in the show notes. It is completely private and you can join as a couple or as an individual to bring information back into your relationship. All found below in the show notes. Now, let’s get back to our episode.

Dr. Jessica: Okay. So, in relationship when this dynamic has taken form, I think it can be helpful when there’s an opportunity to in a grounded way have a heart-to-heart and talk about pleasure, talk about what the intimacy, how that helps us as a couple, what it what it means and the significance to each person. If we’re talking about a monogamous relationship with two people, then we’re expanding the frame of the intimacy and again the meaning around it. And partners typically have things that moves that they make, right? Whether or not it’s to initiate or how people do sex, like there’s tends to be a script around, well, this works, we do the thing that works. And there’s a little bit of we all want to conserve energy as humans and do automate or conserve energy to do things but that can not be so helpful. So when you’re talking about this low desire, high desire, if we’re going to speak in those terms, if we can back up and look at, okay, we want to be in service of pleasure and connection and intimacy. If that if there’s a yes to that, right? So there might be other things that are if there’s been a previous betrayal or, you know, there might be obstacles or blocks that might interfere with that, but if if both parties are like, “Yes, we want to prioritize this or have space for this and we want to be able to access this.” Sometimes the way in which a partner might initiate the proposal sounds like oh I want to have sex. I want to have intercourse. It doesn’t sound like oh there’s a lot of opportunity if I talk about responsiveness like for me to just be in my body and feel pleasure and then my desire arousal might emerge like it there’s certain things that we have associated with the initiation. So I think starting there can build something that would be a workable thing for both people that maybe many things are on the table and it’s not about necessarily intercourse or each person are responsible for their own orgasm but we could still be in a place of shared pleasure depending on where we’re at in any given time. So I think that if we can kind of give more opportunity and range for what would feel good and again depending on if you know there’s postpartum like there can be a lot of things that would interrupt being able to access but if we can take a little bit of a step back when we’re not approaching sex and just have a bit more of an open conversation bigger picture I think that can be a good starting place.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, I really agree. I’ve talked a lot about that in my own work too around sex doesn’t always have to be penis and vagina, right? Intimacy can look a lot different than just that and and broadening that. So, I think that’s really great advice. Before I ask you my next question, I do want to make sure everybody is very aware of one of my favorite sayings, which is couples that pump together stay together. And this is to just name that when we’re talking about sex and intimate intimacy, we’re talking about so many different root causes oftentimes that stop the train for couples. And one thing even when we’re talking about broadening what intimacy looks like, one thing can just be keeping all of our parts healthy together. So, one of the things that I’ve seen from the lady pump, which is this vulvar covering or this clitoral piece, and it goes into this component, which actually provides this vacuum type of mechanism, is that it brings more blood to the tissue. And I’ve seen a lot of changes and improvements with sensation. So, sometimes with age, like just it just doesn’t feel the same way as it used to. And the pumps are one way of getting the sensation back. Also works great for men. There’s cylinders of different sizes. The size does matter. There’s several sizes so you can get your fit exactly right. This really makes a difference with improving erection quality performance. But even if everything is great there, it’s just a great way of keeping these parts healthy for life so you can enjoy intimacy. So make sure you check for the links and discount codes in the show notes below. This is from the company Dr. Joel Kaplan. Now the next question I have for you is around expectations. So my question is, do you see any, and it’s okay if you don’t, but do you see any expectations about sex that people commonly bring into long-term relationships and just don’t ever name them? Do you see this happen much?

Dr. Jessica: Of course. I mean, how could I’m almost like, how could we not, right? We we grow up in a world where we’ve gotten a lot of messaging around sex and intimacy whether or not it’s from media, friends, family, like there’s so many messages. I think it depends on people’s culture and also the norms and also how much people have tried to make what’s unconscious conscious like looking at these things. Our first sexual experiences. Like there’s a lot of history that typically will precede a long-term adult intimate relationship. Some people come into like if I’m thinking of a male partner, they might feel some level of responsibility or ego boost from pleasing their partner. And or a female partner that feels somehow, you know, this seems a little less popular, but I I still hear clients talk about feeling like it’s a duty or a chore, keep my man happy or, you know, these type of things. And so, yes, I mean, I we could talk probably for hours about expectations. So, do you have any one or two that you could name that tend to cause the most damage? Is it have you seen that you can distill it down to that?

Dr. Jessica: Well, I think the responsibility I would say two which would be that who we’re assigning responsibility to. So if I’m thinking my partner is responsible for getting me aroused that can be a total hang up issue or it can lead to a lot of challenges or if I approach intimate space that I’m responsible for directing the show or leading the show in a particular way. I think that can be tricky for sure.

Dr. Diane: I agree. Such great advice. My final question for you before we let you go and before we tell people about your great gift that you have for everybody is that if a listener does one thing tonight to improve their relationship, not a program, just one thing, what should it be?

Dr. Jessica: Yeah, I’m going to just distill it down to something so super basic, but I would say take some time to just breathe and locate your body and feel sensation. Whether or not it’s I can look outside and see different colors or I can feel the temperature of the air on my skin or what is what kind of muscle tension can I like notice and maybe just stretch and release all of the five senses and just giving an opportunity to just drop into the present moment and feel oneself and from there typically we’re in a better position to be available for connection.

Dr. Diane: Amazing. And we are going to have a link to your podcast so people can continue to learn from you through that in the show notes as well as how to get a hold of you. But tell us, if you would about your free gift you’re giving everybody.

Dr. Jessica: Yeah. Well, it relates to our conversation today, but I think it related more to our conversation last time, but it’s a guide to help people look at how to shift out of the critical tendency. We talked about protective moves and conflict and oftentimes we’re not even aware. One of those common protective moves is being critical. And so this guide really helps access the deeper need or the deeper longing or the pain that we’re wanting our partner to see, that vulnerable part. And it gives language and scenarios to workshop this to reverse engineer what a common tendency is and how we might set this up so that our partner is able to respond to what really matters.

Dr. Diane: Perfect. And we will have that, like I said, in the show notes. Everybody, I want to thank you so much for listening. And remember, like always, at the end of every calendar year, we invite the guest that has had the most likes, shares, downloads to the libido lounge to do a deep dive and a deeper discussion with them. So, please make sure you make comments, you share this with your friends and loved ones, and we hopefully will get to invite Dr. Jessica back at the end of the year. So, thank you again, Dr. Jessica, for being here with us on the lounge. It is a pleasure and I will see all of you again really soon. Thank you for listening to the libido lounge. Please don’t keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends. You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, and check out our Modern Libido Club for so much more!

Why We Have the Same Fight Over and Over: Recurring Arguments in a Relationship and Perpetual Problems

Dr. Diane: People are attempting to talk through something and not feeling resolutions. Perhaps how we’re approaching it is perhaps leading to this endless vicious cycle. I might actually take offense to that. They’re both using protective strategies that are hurting the other and they’re actually having difficulty talking about the deeper vulnerability. Some of the scariest work I’ve ever done. It’s usually scary. It’s the thing I don’t want to say feels maybe unlovable or unattractive or insecure. We’re not going to have the same perspective. So trying to get consensus is an endless journey that won’t result to the thing that people typically are yearning for.

Dr. Diane: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Libido Lounge. I’m your host Dr. Diane and as always we have another great guest today and this one this particular guest Dr. Jessica Higgins you heard from last week. If you’ve not watched that episode, I definitely recommend going and watching it. We talked a lot about with criticism, its impacts in the bedroom, outside of the bedroom, how to recognize if you’re being overly critical, how to work with the quote unquote no that people bring up in relationship to work with it in a way that is helpful to the relationship and not harmful. So that was all in episode one. I introduced Dr. Jessica there too as the host of the Empowered Relationship podcast and somebody that really does so much in her own work to help couples navigate the challenges of long-lasting intimacy more gracefully. So, we’re talking about conflict today. So, first of all, welcome back to the lounge, Dr. Jessica.

Dr. Jessica: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, my pleasure. And now that we’re talking about conflict, I think one of the things that we hear so many couples say when it comes to conflict is, “Well, we just had a communication breakdown.” And so oftentimes, this is what’s said. And so my curiosity is like, how often do you find that that’s the reason behind conflict is a communication breakdown? Or is that just something that we say to in some ways just label it but maybe prevent us from going deeper as to what’s actually needing repair in the relationship?

Dr. Jessica: Great question. I do think that it makes sense that people would label it as a communication issue because people are attempting to talk through something and not feeling resolution. So it makes sense that that’s where they’re feeling stuck. And when I look at communication, oftentimes we are able to articulate and we’re able to listen to content. Perhaps how we’re approaching it is perhaps leading to this endless vicious cycle. And what I would say is that there’s a deeper understanding of what one is needing and wanting. Like sometimes I might describe a lot in hopes that my husband will be able to understand the thing that’s hurting. And then we talked about this a little bit last time. And also when I’m listening to my husband, I can listen to the content, but if I’m not listening to how come this matters, what is the kind of juice for him? What how this is meaningful? What matters to him? I might miss it. There’s times where he will describe things in ways that I’m like, I would never articulate it that way. And if I’m feeling any level of threat, I might actually take offense to that. And then my need to protect myself, even without awareness, I might respond back. So oftentimes in a disconnect cycle where couples are having a hard time communicating, they’re both using protective strategies that are hurting the other and they’re actually having difficulty talking about the deeper vulnerability, showing the underbelly and having those vulnerable conversations where they’re really understanding. Difficult to do sometimes. Some of the scariest work I’ve ever done. And also it’s what can move mountains, so to speak.

How to Listen Beneath the Words and Protective Strategies in Conflict

Dr. Diane: So the solution, one of the solutions that I’m hearing is the way we listen. So it sounds like what you’re saying in part is it’s not about just listening to the words, it’s about listening for what’s underneath the words. What are they really saying? How are they really feeling? And so is there from a standpoint of like solutions and strategies, is there more you can say on how we listen in order to help people break this vicious cycle?

Dr. Jessica: Yes. I will say that you’re asking a question about the harder of the two. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I’m happy to answer. I’m just saying for listeners who are thinking about their relationship. I find it a bit of an advanced move to hold on to myself, stay regulated in a heated discussion. And if I can listen to my partner particularly if he’s being critical or so I’ll give you a scenario just that it’s not so it’s easier to listen when it’s not about me right if he’s talking about a work thing and he’s venting a bit I’m listening I might understand all the facts and the content of what he’s saying but I’m still a little bit of like okay like not feeling my empathy kick in yet. And then if I get curious and try to understand if it were if those things were true for me and I was in that situation I was listening it was this is a real example and I was like oh I wouldn’t feel supported. So I asked him is this you know one of the things that comes up for me if it were me I wouldn’t feel supported. Is that right? And he’s like yes. Then when he told me that he wasn’t feeling supported I felt myself lean in and feel that empathy of like this is why it matters to him. Easier when it’s not about me right? So if that’s why I’m saying it’s a little bit of a ninja move or a more advanced move. So if he’s talking about me, still possible but harder to do that he’s perhaps got issue with me or criticizing me. If I can stay grounded or at least have a part of me that’s grounded. I might say, “Okay, there’s a part of me that’s getting defensive, but there’s a part of me that can actually just stay grounded. This matters to him. He’s got strong feelings. Let me be interested in that.” So, it’s almost as if I’m like watching him project something on the screen and I’m watching it go by and he’s painting a picture for me. He’s giving me a story and I don’t have to actually agree with the story, but if I can just say, “Okay, so given all of that he’s shared, given all of that, what’s that like for him?” And if I can stay interested, then I’m more like leaning in of like, oh, he’s wanting to feel, you know, I don’t have an example right now, heard and seen about something, then my empathy kicks in. I don’t actually, we don’t need to agree on the facts, but if I can understand why it matters, then I’m able to lean in and respond to him and his emotion and that’s going to get us into more connection.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you on the difference and what is easier versus not. Are there any other before I ask my next question, are there any other intro steps in how to do this well that you want to share with us?

Dr. Jessica: Well, I would say starting with the self. So when we are noticing a pain point or I’ve got a bone to pick with you, right? That depending on the goodwill in the bank, we could just initiate and start that conversation. Typically we when we can start it with a little bit more intentionality, we’ve got space, nobody’s got a meeting approaching, we’re kind of rested, fed, those type of things. And if I can take some time to do some prep work, asking some questions around again what comes up for me the deeper emotion, why this matters. Again, if I posed that question last time we met in the previous interview, if my husband did the thing I wanted him to do or if he didn’t do what I don’t want him to do, what would that allow me to feel? What would I be experiencing? Then I have a little bit more visibility and illumination on the things that matter and I can root around and usually even for myself that I’m in this field I’ve been I support other people I walk the talk it’s still I have to slow down access so once I get to a sense of resonance of like oh this is this is the juicy part and it’s usually scary it’s the thing I don’t want to say feels maybe unlovable or unattractive or insecure and if I can show him and lead the conversation and send that signal. It’s usually pretty concise. You know, we could say, “Okay, here’s some facts to orient when x, y, and z, I felt this or this is what came up for me and I’m showing him.” He’s likely going to respond to the thing that I actually am wanting him to see versus what we typically do is we do a whole monologue and we get into the facts and then we go back and forth on trying to recreate reality and the facts. That’s why people say it’s a communication thing because we don’t agree. We don’t have consensus. Truth is, we never will. We have different perspectives. We come from different backgrounds. We’re not going to see the same. We’re not going to have the same perspective. So, trying to get consensus is an endless journey that won’t result to the thing that people typically are yearning for.

Breaking the Rejection Cycle in Relationships

Dr. Diane: What about the rejection cycle? So, taking this to the bedroom, there’s this vicious cycle that I see so many couples get into, which is one person initiates a lot and is getting turned down a lot. And so they basically stop initiating and the person that was turning them down, they’re already feeling no desire for whatever root causes are driving that. But now they’re feeling oftentimes a sense of guilt on top of it. And so there’s this, you know, kind of bidirectional for different reason, level of rejection. So it’s a little bit of a vicious cycle, a loop that gets created. Do you see any ways that are just like the common ways that people begin to break this loop?

Dr. Jessica: There’s so much to be said around this.

Dr. Diane: I just want to take a quick break to say one of the number one things that leads to a lack or just a slowing of passion in the relationship is thinking that our partner’s body and mind and spirit is going to be the same today as tomorrow. So, one of the things that happens for so many bodies, especially for female bodies, is that with time, the pleasure needs change. And we get into those sexual scripts and those habits of doing the same thing over and over and over again, not always realizing that our pleasure body is wanting something else. This creates a lack of passion, a desire, a lack of orgasm, and is one of the reasons why bedrooms can start to get quieter. I talk about how to fix this and so much more walking you through a step-by-step guide for an entire year if you want on how to improve your pleasure life. Start with a free trial, stay for a month, stay for the year, make it yours. You’ll see all of this and more and how to get started in the show notes below this video. I hope you will join me in my hot monogamy society. Now, let’s get back to our episode.

Dr. Diane: So, you’re asking specifically about the rejection or are you asking also about how to break the loop? I’m asking the my primary question was how to break the loop, but I think talking about both are valid. And so we can go to both places.

Dr. Jessica: Okay. So in relationship when this dynamic has taken form, I think it can be helpful when there’s an opportunity to in a grounded way have a heart-to-heart and talk about pleasure, talk about what the intimacy, how that helps us as a couple, what it what it means and the significance to each person. If we’re talking about a monogamous relationship with two people and we’re expanding the frame of the intimacy and again the meaning around it and partners typically have things that moves that they make, right? Whether or not it’s to initiate or how people do sex like there’s tends to be a script around well this works we do the thing that works and there’s a little bit of we all want to conserve energy as humans and do automate or conserve energy to do things but that can not be so helpful. So when you’re talking about this low desire, high desire, if we’re going to speak in those terms, if we can back up and look at, okay, we want to be in service of pleasure and connection and intimacy, if that if there’s a yes to that, right? So if there might be other things that are if there’s been a previous betrayal or you know there might be obstacles or blocks that might interfere with that but if if both parties are like yes we want to prioritize this or have space for this and we want to be able to access this. Sometimes the way in which a partner might initiate the proposal sounds like I want to have sex. I want to have intercourse. It doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of opportunity if I talk about responsiveness like for me to just be in my body and feel pleasure and then my desire arousal might emerge like it there’s certain things that we have associated with the initiation. So I think starting there can build something that would be a workable thing for both people that maybe many things are on the table and it’s not about necessarily intercourse or each person are responsible for their own orgasm but we could still be in a place of shared pleasure depending on where we’re at in any given time. So I think that if we can kind of give more opportunity and range for what would feel good and again depending on if you know there’s postpartum like there can be a lot of things that would interrupt being able to access but if we can take a little bit of a step back when we’re not approaching sex and just have a bit more of an open conversation bigger picture I think that can be a good starting place.

Dr. Diane: Yeah, I really agree. I’ve talked a lot about that in my own work too around sex doesn’t always have to be penis and vagina, right? Intimacy can look a lot different than just that and and broadening that. So, I think that’s really great advice. Before I ask you my next question, I do want to make sure everybody is very aware of one of my favorite sayings, which is couples that pump together stay together. And this is to just name that when we’re talking about sex and intimate versus intimacy, we’re talking about so many different root causes oftentimes that stop the train for couples. And one thing even when we’re talking about broadening what intimacy looks like, one thing can just be keeping all of our parts healthy together. So, one of the things that I’ve seen from the lady pump, which is this vulvar covering or this clitoral piece, and it goes into this component, which actually provides this vacuum type of mechanism, is that it brings more blood to the tissue. And I’ve seen a lot of changes and improvements with sensation. So, sometimes with age, like just it just doesn’t feel the same way as it used to. And the pumps are one way of getting the sensation back. Also works great for men. There’s cylinders of different sizes. The size does matter. There’s several sizes so you can get your fit exactly right. This really makes a difference with improving erection quality performance. But even if everything is great there, it’s just a great way of keeping these parts healthy for life so you can enjoy intimacy. So make sure you check for the links and discount codes in the show notes below. This is from the company Dr. Joel Kaplan. Now, the next question I have for you is around expectations. So, my question is, do you see any, and it’s okay if you don’t, but do you see any expectations about sex that people commonly bring into long-term relationships and just don’t ever name them? Do you see this happen much?

Dr. Jessica: Of course. I mean, how could I’m almost like, how could we not, right? We grow up in a world where we’ve gotten a lot of messaging around sex and intimacy whether or not it’s from media, friends, family, like there’s so many messages. I think it depends on people’s culture and also the norms and also how much people have tried to make what’s unconscious conscious like looking at these things. Our first sexual experiences. Like there’s a lot of history that typically will precede a long-term adult intimate relationship. Some people come into like if I’m thinking of a male partner, they might feel some level of responsibility or ego boost from pleasing their partner and or a female partner that feels somehow, you know, this seems a little less popular, but I still hear clients talk about feeling like it’s a duty or a chore, keep my man happy or, you know, these type of things. And so, yes, expectations. I mean, we could talk probably for hours about expectations. So, do you have any one or two that you could name that tend to cause the most damage? Is it have you seen that you can distill it down to that?

Dr. Jessica: Well, I think the responsibility I would say two, which would be that who we’re assigning responsibility to. So if I’m thinking my partner is responsible for getting me aroused that can be a total hang up issue or it can lead to a lot of challenges or if I approach intimate space that I’m responsible for directing the show or leading the show in a particular way. I think that can be tricky for sure.

Dr. Diane: I agree. Such great advice. My final question for you before we let you go and before we tell people about your great gift that you have for everybody is that if a listener does one thing tonight to improve their relationship, not a program, just one thing, what should it be?

Dr. Jessica: Yeah, I’m going to just distill it down to something so super basic, but I would say take some time to just breathe and locate your body and feel sensation whether or not it’s I can look outside and see different colors or I can feel the temperature of the air on my skin or what is what kind of muscle tension can I like notice and maybe just stretch and release all the five senses and just giving an opportunity to just drop into the present moment and feel oneself and from there typically we’re in a better position to be available for connection.

Dr. Diane: Amazing. And we are going to have a link to your podcast so people can continue to learn from you through that in the show notes as well as how to get a hold of you. But tell us if you would about your free gift you’re giving everybody.

Dr. Jessica: Yeah. Well, it relates to our conversation today, but I think it related more to our conversation last time, but it’s a guide to help people look at how to shift out of the critical tendency. We talked about protective moves and conflict. And oftentimes we’re not even aware. One of those common protective moves is being critical. And so this guide really helps access the deeper need or the deeper longing or the pain that we’re wanting our partner to see that vulnerable part. And it gives language and scenarios to workshop this to reverse engineer what a common tendency is and how we might set this up so that our partner is able to respond to what really matters.

Dr. Diane: Perfect. And we will have that, like I said, in the show notes. Everybody, I want to thank you so much for listening. And remember, like always, at the end of every calendar year, we invite the guest that has had the most likes, shares, downloads to the libido lounge to do a deep dive and a deeper discussion with them. So, please make sure you make comments, you share this with your friends and loved ones, and we hopefully will get to invite Dr. Jessica back at the end of the year. So, thank you again, Dr. Jessica, for being here with us on the lounge. It is a pleasure and I will see all of you again really soon. Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don’t keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends. You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, and check out our Modern Libido Club for so much more!